Ps3 cecha01

Schematic Diagram Ps3 Motherboard. The schematic diagram of a PlayStation 3 (PS3) motherboard is an important tool for anyone looking to repair or troubleshoot their console. It provides a detailed schematic of the components and their locations on the board, allowing technicians to quickly and easily identify and resolve …

Shut down, turn off, and unplug your console. Leave the console off for 20-30 minutes and allow it to cool down completely. Check all the wiring between the console and other accessories (television, audio equipment, etc.) Remove the PS3 hard drive from the console. One of the common causes of the YLOD is the connection between the hard …The major difference is going to be that the cechl has a smaller cell than the cechh. So the cechh is going to consume more power and make more heat. Everything cechH and after (fat wise) seems to have the same variety of laser parts. With the cechH using the bmd-003 and the cechL using bmd-021. As far as reliable levels the L is probably a bit ...I recently acquired a CECHA01 that has a power on time of 3 days total, it’s never been opened, never been updated past firmware 1.10, and it’s Blu Ray drive has never read a game disc before. I was more excited getting this than my PS5 lmfao. It's imo one of the most beautiful consoles.Buy a full backward compatible PlayStation 3 console model CECHA01 that has been reballed using leadfree solder and restored to like new condition. Enjoy PS1, PS2, PS3 games and Blueray movies with one …Mar 14, 2021 · Just picked up a PS3 CECHA01, untampered, PS2 hardware back compat, and still on OFW 1.10!? I thought to update it to 4.87 CFW But Are there any reasons/benefits to keep this on OFW 1.10 before upgrading? Keep it well ventilated it will be fine. There is nothing that matches the look and functionality of the A01 so my vote is for worth it. Those consoles are prone to failure if mistreated, to keep it alive clean it out and replace the thermal paste once a year, keep it in an open space at all times to keep it cool.

Para despedir a esta consola que sale de mi colección, quise hacer este video para que todos ustedes la conozcan. Una PS3 con una PS2 por dentro!!Add a Comment. theCECHA-01 • 2 yr. ago. Sell it before it YLOD's. Its one of the most valuable PS3 cause of hardware backwards compatibility. You'll get a decent price for it, but even if you wait don't expect the world for it. Imo it's probably won't climb higher than it already is in price.Picture quality wise, the CECHC/E are regarded as the best in sharpness and clarity, upscaling the image to 1080p, the CECHA/B however,stick to they´re original 480/576p "although i am not sure about that myself, reading a few comparasions, people mention the CECHC/E have a better visual quality than the CECHA", so they stay at the …Add a Comment. Astral_Strider. • 4 yr. ago. The bare basics for your CECHA01 are: Open it up and give it a thorough cleanup of the insides to remove any dust/dirt/lint, especially on the fan to help it dissipate heat effectively, then replace any thermal paste it has on the CPU and GPU for some quality one like Arctic Silver 5 or Arctic MX-4 ...Hi, i recently came across a Ps3 CECHA01 backwards comptaible system from a friend but when i tested it out, it doesn't read any of my PS2 games. I updated the system software but no dice. Wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions. Not sure if resetting to factory settings would help. DVD lens is burnt out, a laser replacement would fix this.

Majin Riddler will be eternally grateful. Majin Riddler, the first thing you want to do, is to check the leads from the power supply to make sure that it is working. After you check your PSU and find that it works properly, check the fuses on the logic board for continuity. - …I recently found someone selling a boxed Japanese PS3 Fat that’s model CECHA00 and is full BC compatible. Now keep in mind I already have a slim PS3 with CFW and a PS2 (dead laser, but got HDD adapter and FreeHDBoot). I’m aware that these consoles are the worst in terms of reliability and are basically a ticking time bomb when it comes to ...A user asks about the difference between PS3 models CECHA01 and CECHE01, and gets detailed explanations about the emulators and backwards compatibility of PS1, PS2 and … Add a Comment. Astral_Strider. • 4 yr. ago. The bare basics for your CECHA01 are: Open it up and give it a thorough cleanup of the insides to remove any dust/dirt/lint, especially on the fan to help it dissipate heat effectively, then replace any thermal paste it has on the CPU and GPU for some quality one like Arctic Silver 5 or Arctic MX-4 ... PS3 CECHA01 FAT BLU-RAY DVD REPLACEMENT DISC DRIVE CECHE01 B01 KES-400A BD-400.. Opens in a new window or tab. Refurbished. 5.0 out of 5 stars. 1 product rating - PS3 CECHA01 FAT BLU-RAY DVD REPLACEMENT DISC DRIVE CECHE01 B01 KES-400A BD-400.. C $82.31. Top Rated Seller Top Rated Seller.

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I have a CECHA01 that needed a laser replacement. I replaced the laser deck (laser, stepper motor, disc motor) and it read ps3 and ps2 games for about half an hour. Then it would only read ps2 games. I took it apart again and swapped the new laser into the old deck because I read something about the height screws on the deck being adjusted from ...4.75 is not supported by the PS3 Toolset, only 4.82+ are. But like I said it makes no difference, update to 4.82-4.86, jailbreak the console & if ever you must for some reason use 4.75, proceed to downgrade. bguerville, Aug 11, 2020 #17. 425 73 82. SeanRanklin Member. Joined: Sep 26, 2018For me, results were about 2-3C cooler WITH ventillation holes drilled into the bottom of the PS3 directly over the fan. Third Mod: APS-231 PSU: Dramatic improvement in thermals. Especially on the CPU. 4-6C improvement in the CPU & 1-2C improvment on the RSX over the previous mods. All togethor I was able to lower the temps from originally 67/ ... This System will meet the following Features: * System model is CECHA01 which is the backward compatible model and it can play PS1, PS2 and PS3 games in addition to Blueray movies and regular DVDs. ** The console has firmware version Above 4.50 **. * Built in memory card reader. * 60GB hard drive. * 4 USB ports. In todays video, we do temperature comparisons on a PS3 after deliding, with and without liquid metal!- Remember to like and subscribe for more! I always rea... There are two 80GB PS3 models. The CECHE 80GB model is backwards compatible with PS2 games. It used a similar setup to the CECHC model, using software emulation for the Emotion Engine and RAMBUS memory but also using the PS2 GPU the Graphics Synthesiser. The CECHE was only released in SOME NTSC regions for a limited time.

Sony PlayStation 3 PS3 FAT CECHA01 60GB Backwards Compatible Console TESTED. Opens in a new window or tab. Pre-Owned. 4.5 out of 5 stars. 419 product ratings - Sony PlayStation 3 PS3 FAT CECHA01 60GB Backwards Compatible Console TESTED. C $398.98. dieseljohnny1025 (1,537) 98.5%. Buy It Now.PS3 CECHA01 FAT BLU-RAY DVD REPLACEMENT DISC DRIVE CECHE01 B01 KES-400A BD-400.. Opens in a new window or tab. Refurbished. 5.0 out of 5 stars. 1 product rating - PS3 CECHA01 FAT BLU-RAY DVD REPLACEMENT DISC DRIVE CECHE01 B01 KES-400A BD-400.. C $82.31. Top Rated Seller Top Rated Seller.Well from my experience, i would say staying on both below 65º its a the sweet spot. My new CECH-C04 stays below 60º on both, even during PS3 games, usually hovering 52º CELL and 57º RSX at 33% fan speed, i would never advise leaving a 60Gb at 28% fan speed, as thats mainly stock from the time it powers to the pre-heat, thats the … But basically I wanna make the ultimate PS3 from my still working CECHA. I plan to: dust out the internals, de-lid the CPU and GPU; applying arctic silver above and under, install a 1 terabyte SSD, install a 19 blade fan, replace the power supply with an APS-226, and rest the PS3 on four 1’ tall chrome legs for better air circulation. The only real way to fix this is to clean the dust out and replace the thermal paste. It was manufactured in March 2007. Just bought it on eBay and when I turn it on, the fan gets waaaay too loud. Is there a way to fix this?Modding a CECHA01. Discussion in 'Help & Support' started by self_slaughter, Mar 10, 2015. 619 349 97. self_slaughter Member. Joined: Feb 18, 2015 Messages: 619 Likes Received: 349 ... Almost bought a white fat ps3 but backwards compatibility swayed me away so this will probably end up getting powdercoated glossy …I remember reading about lots of issues not booting up, getting super hot, etc. but its been awhile. Any information or experience with these models would be great! I know cecha01 is the holy grail of PS3 models because of hardware ps1/ps2 backward compatibility. I was lucky enough to get one of these models around 5 years ago but …One day, I boot my PS3 to find that I cannot put a disc into the console. Pressing the eject button causes the console to beep 3 times, indicating that the drive is empty. However, when I tried to insert a disc, I can easily feel that there's already a disc stuck inside. I disassembled the drive carefully, removed the disc, and reset the drive ...http://www.clovisxbox360repair.com/PS3 how to open and properly clean Model CECHH01 this also will work on CECHK01how to, Repair a Xbox, CECHH01, CECHK01, Re...Another PS3 restoration, this one being the first YLoD repair on the channel. This particular unit is a CECH-H01 model, which is a revision older than the PS...

Nov 14, 2015 · Destruction Derby Arenas, L.A. Rush, Burnout 2 on CECHA01 (Full hardware based PS2 backward compatible (EE+GS) and on CECHC04 (Software based PS2 backward c...

PlayStation 3's Cell CPU achieves a theoretical maximum of 153.6 GFLOPS in single precision floating point operations and up to 15 GFLOPS double precision. [1] The PS3 has 256 MB ( [2]) of Rambus XDR DRAM, clocked at CPU die speed. [1] The PPE has 64 KB ( [3]) L1 cache and 512 KB L2 cache, while the SPEs have 2 MB local memory (256 KB per SPE ... I’ve never once mentioned this ps3 was modded, only that I DON’T want to mod it. I wouldn’t care if the ps3 was never taken out of the box or not, I just like to have a CECHA01 in excellent condition. Your ass is opened after all since your head is way up in there. Don’t assume shit unless you actually read the words in front of you ...Get the best deals for ps3 cecha01 at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!The PlayStation 3 (PS3) is a home video game console developed and marketed by Sony Interactive Entertainment.The successor to the PlayStation 2, it is part of the PlayStation brand of consoles. It was first released on November 11, 2006, in Japan, November 17, 2006, in North America, and March 23, 2007, in Europe and Australia. The PlayStation …Hey Everyone!I'm 2 of 3 when it comes to the backwards compatible models for the PS3. Today we're going to take a look at the CECHE01. This version relied on...I’ve never once mentioned this ps3 was modded, only that I DON’T want to mod it. I wouldn’t care if the ps3 was never taken out of the box or not, I just like to have a CECHA01 in excellent condition. Your ass is opened after all since your head is way up in there. Don’t assume shit unless you actually read the words in front of you ...Ps3 Sony Playstation 3 60gb 60 gig Fully Backwards Compatible Model CECHA01 Console System with 4 USB ports and Memory card reader ports : Amazon.ca: Video Games Skip to main content.ca. Delivering to Balzac T4B 2T Update location Video Games. Select the department you ...

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Step 9 Remove the shields. Unscrew the M screws and unplug the board battery. Your PS3 now does not know the date and time. I messed up when I put it back together. The shield goes under the top half of the HDD cage. Lift this side of the HDD cage and wiggle it.Modding a CECHA01. Discussion in 'Help & Support' started by self_slaughter, Mar 10, 2015. 619 349 97. self_slaughter Member. Joined: Feb 18, 2015 Messages: 619 Likes Received: 349 ... Almost bought a white fat ps3 but backwards compatibility swayed me away so this will probably end up getting powdercoated glossy …I recently bought a barely used CECHA01 model PS3, perfect condition, running great. I opened it up to do a preemptive maintenance: Replaced the termal paste (Arctic MX-4) Replaced every termal pad (Arctic 6,0 W/mK, 1.5cm) Replaced the ZSSR5391A power supply for the APS-226 model. Made sure it had the 19 blades fan.I have a Phat PS3 (CECHA01) unfortunately running on the latest OFW 4.84, can anyone guide me towards a tutorial on how to run it on the latest CFW/Xploit....I have no idea on how to even begin or where to search it....I have experience modifying other consoles so I'm not a total noob. 25. results for. ps3 motherboard cecha01. Ps3 cecha01 metal motherboard shell w/out clamp brackets. W/out All Screws. PS3 FAT BLU-RAY DVD REPLACEMENT DISC DRIVE CECHA01 E01 B01 G01 KES-400A BD-400.. 15% off with coupon. Max $100 off. Get the best deals for ps3 motherboard cecha01 at eBay.com. Hey Everyone!I'm 2 of 3 when it comes to the backwards compatible models for the PS3. Today we're going to take a look at the CECHE01. This version relied on...Add a Comment. theCECHA-01 • 2 yr. ago. Sell it before it YLOD's. Its one of the most valuable PS3 cause of hardware backwards compatibility. You'll get a decent price for it, but even if you wait don't expect the world for it. Imo it's probably won't climb higher than it already is in price.PS3 CECHA01 flashing red (not yellow) Discussion in 'Hardware Mods' started by jacobsson, Sep 2, 2020. 596 514 172. jacobsson Senior Member. Joined: Aug 11, 2017 Messages: 596 Likes Received: 514 Trophy Points: 172 Gender: Male. Hi … ….

So I’ve had this CECHA01 PS3 with a broken drive for quite sometime now, I’ve replaced it with a 40GB drive and it didn’t work sadly. (yes I’ve used the same daughterboard and I’ve remarried it using CFW) I was wondering, since I’m buying a CECHE01 PS3, should I risk possibly breaking the E01, and replacing the drive on my CECHA01? Add a Comment. Astral_Strider. • 4 yr. ago. The bare basics for your CECHA01 are: Open it up and give it a thorough cleanup of the insides to remove any dust/dirt/lint, especially on the fan to help it dissipate heat effectively, then replace any thermal paste it has on the CPU and GPU for some quality one like Arctic Silver 5 or Arctic MX-4 ... Ps3 Sony Playstation 3 60gb 60 gig Fully Backwards Compatible Model CECHA01 Console System with 4 USB ports and Memory card reader ports : Amazon.ca: Video Games Skip to main content.ca. Delivering to Balzac T4B 2T Update location Video Games. Select the department you ...Step 10. READ THIS ENTIRE STEP AND THE NEXT ONE BEFORE PROCEEDING. Locate the two locking tabs on the back of the PS3. Push them in simultaneously and lift the outer plastic shell off of the main board but BE CAREFUL as there is a ribbon cable connecting the shell to other hardware. Ribbon cables are very …Video 1 of 4 on A01 teardown, new thermal paste aplication and hard drive upgrade.I have also tried replacing the CECHA01 xRegistry.sys (I backed it up first) with the CECHC03 but this yielded the same results as changing the PS3’s region manually in the xRegistry.sys Now here’s where i’m confused - some people also claim that NTSC models have traditionally had difficulty with PAL games over the years but PAL models …About PlayStation®2 format discs and Super Audio CDs. The table below lists the PS3™ system models that can play most PlayStation®2 format discs, as well as all Super Audio CDs. Sales Region. Model. Japan. CECHA00, CECHB00. U.S.A. / Canada. CECHA01, CECHB01, CECHE01. Latin America.405 votes, 62 comments. 195K subscribers in the PS3 community. The PlayStation 3 Subreddit (PS3, PlayStation3, Sony PlayStation 3). ... My PS3 arrived today! It’s a CECHA01, came with 2 controllers, all the necessary hookups, …Dec 9, 2010 · Sony PlayStation 3 60GB (NEW, Unopened, Sealed) Experience the next generation of gaming with the Sony PlayStation 3. It boasts impressive high-definition graphics and multichannel sound that engage you in the on-screen action. And this home entertainment powerhouse goes beyond gaming, offering a wealth of multimedia and networking features. Ps3 cecha01, The console is a CECHA01 and i'm im going into the debug settings to change the region code. The console does a video reset and the code appears to be changed. However when I load the DVD you can gear the drive reading the disc and just before it launches the menu it gives the " Region code is not correct" message on a …, Get the best deals on Playstation 3 Backwards Compatible Cecha01 and upgrade your gaming setup with a new gaming console. Find the lowest prices at eBay.com. Fast & …, PS3 CECHA01(?) won't read PS2 or PS1 discs, will PS3 . Title. An extra thing I'd wanna mention. I have cracked it open before to clean up the dust inside the heat sink and swapped the innards to a nicer outer shell from a CECHE so I may have gotten the barcode mixed up on them., New Listing Sony PS3 CECHA01 Backwards 1TB HDD W/ 7000+ Retro & PS3/2/1 Games & Controllers. Opens in a new window or tab. Pre-Owned · Sony PlayStation 3 · Sony ... , each shop is different. Best is to just call them and see if they're able to handle the issue for you and how comfortable they are with the repair. Don’t. They just watch videos and will …, The only real way to fix this is to clean the dust out and replace the thermal paste. It was manufactured in March 2007. Just bought it on eBay and when I turn it on, the fan gets waaaay too loud. Is there a way to fix this?, PS3 CECHA01 flashing red (not yellow) Discussion in 'Hardware Mods' started by jacobsson, Sep 2, 2020. 596 514 172. jacobsson Senior Member. Joined: Aug 11, 2017 Messages: 596 Likes Received: 514 Trophy Points: 172 Gender: Male. Hi …, Feb 17, 2023. #1. Thinking of picking up a Japanese 60GB CECHA00 and have a couple of questions. XMB can be changed to English (like Japanese PSP), but what is the golden firmware these days to look for before installing CFW? With CFW, is it possible to tell how long system has been used for, and/or powered on and if firmware was …, Hi, i recently came across a Ps3 CECHA01 backwards comptaible system from a friend but when i tested it out, it doesn't read any of my PS2 games. I updated the system software but no dice. Wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions. Not sure if resetting to factory settings would help. DVD lens is burnt out, a laser replacement would fix this., Sony PS3 CECHA01 Backwards 1TB HDD W/ 7000+ Retro & PS3/2/1 Games & Controllers. C $850.22. or Best Offer. 25 watching. Sony PlayStation PS3 BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE Console (CECHA01) w/ Controller Works. C $337.91 【controller×2】PlayStation 3 PS3 CECHA00 60GB First Model Black Console Sony used., High-capacity internal hard drive upgrade for PlayStation 3TM or PlayStation 4TM. Seagate® Game Drive for PlayStation is a 2TB internal HDD for. upgrading the stock …, Hi r/PS3, . Not too long ago I got a great deal on a CECHA01 PS3 with a ton of games and the essentials. Plugged it in and tested it out and it seems to work fine so far, other than a disc getting stuck which I was able to get out by doing the fan trick. I tried another disc with it and , 419 product ratings - Sony PS3 CECHA01 Backwards 1TB HDD W/ 7000+ Retro & PS3/2/1 Games & ControlIers. $629.00. stevglen9 (302) 100%. or Best Offer. Free shipping. Sponsored. Sony PlayStation 3 Black PS3 60GB Backwards Compatible CECHA01 ** TESTED ** Opens in a new window or tab., PS3 CECHA01 backwards Compatible Issues? I received a PS3 A few days ago and it’s a CECHA01 model. From my knowledge, I thought the models were almost fully backward compatible with PS2 games as they had built-in hardware for it. But upon trying multiple games like Star Wars Battlefront 2, Star Wats Battlefront, Lego Star Wars, and Call of ... , OFFICIAL PS3 TOOLSET IS BACK ONLINE @ ps3toolset.com -Official new URL >> ps3toolset.com -. ADDITIONAL INFO; - Stuck in ... solaralex Forum Noob. Joined: Jan 15, 2023 Messages: 3 Likes Received: 1 Trophy Points: 7. Hi all, I have a CECHA01 with a non-functioning blu ray drive (BD)., For me, results were about 2-3C cooler WITH ventillation holes drilled into the bottom of the PS3 directly over the fan. Third Mod: APS-231 PSU: Dramatic improvement in thermals. Especially on the CPU. 4-6C improvement in the CPU & 1-2C improvment on the RSX over the previous mods. All togethor I was able to lower the temps from originally 67/ ..., I was hoping this would resolve the issue I was having but unfortunately, it did not. My PS3 will not play PS2 games, It will successfully play PS1 and PS3 games but will not play PS2 games. It will recognize the PS2 game and start the process of loading but the screen just remains black. The motherboard is in fact the correct one for a CECHA01 ..., Just picked up a PS3 CECHA01, untampered, PS2 hardware back compat, and still on OFW 1.10!? I thought to update it to 4.87 CFW But Are there any reasons/benefits to keep this on OFW 1.10 before upgrading? fusionXERO, Mar 14, 2021 #1. 10,779 13,952 1,297. DeViL303 Developer PSX-Place Supporter. Joined: Jan 23, 2016 …, About PlayStation®2 format discs and Super Audio CDs. The table below lists the PS3™ system models that can play most PlayStation®2 format discs, as well as all Super Audio CDs. Sales Region. Model. Japan. CECHA00, CECHB00. U.S.A. / Canada. CECHA01, CECHB01, CECHE01. Latin America., Buy Open Box: Sony Playstation 3 (CECHA01) 60 GB Game Console Backward Compatible with 1 Dual Shock Controller with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. , I have a CECHA01 running old REBUG custom firmware. I used to use this thing regularly, especially for ripping my disc games to folders I would copy to my PC and keep for safekeeping. But as with all of these first-gen PS3s, it overheats, a lot, and will eventually shut off. No YLOD, but it's pretty frustrating., PS3 CECHA01 MODDING QUESTIONS. I'm thinking about doing some mods to the CECHA01 to make the console more robust and survive longer. I have 3 questions in total: I'd like to put a very large SSD in place of the original 60GB HDD. But, I've been told I don't want to do this because the drive may fail prematurely as the PS3 OS won't be running ..., CECHA01 PS3 with CECHH01 Blu-Ray drive? Here's a fun problem I found myself trying to fix. Long story short, I ordered a replacement laser for my CECHA01 model PS3 only to discover it appears to have a replacement drive that is labeled as one for a CECHH01 PS3 with the dual laser diodes. How normal/abnormal is something like this? , .::::CECHA01 PS3::::.-Hardly used -Clean, looks like no one has tampered with it at all. -All screws look very clean -WARRANTY STICKER INTACT. Now, my ps3 lid slides off when I apply pressure in the upwards motion when you go to open up the PS3 system. THIS IS ONLY SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, WHEN YOU REMOVE WARRANTY STICKER + …, CECHAxx. Launch model released to Japan, United States, and Canada that came with 60GB storage. It was more expensive than CECHBxx due to having extra features, such as a larger hard drive, WiFi module, and there was a door that could be opened above the USB ports to reveal card readers. It also featured a chrome trim instead of black on the shell. , PlayStation 3 / PS3; PS3 Systems; ... (CECHA01) 60 GB Game Console Backward Compatible with 1 Dual Shock Controller. REFURBISHED Product Type OPEN BOX Product Type. 4 USB Ports Wifi and Flash Reader AV Cable AC Cord USB Cable Backward Compatible (Plays PS2 Games) The Open Box Product Disclaimer applies ..., View and Download Sony PLAYSTATION 3 SM-PS3-0013E-02 service manual online. 60GB model Game Console. PLAYSTATION 3 SM-PS3-0013E-02 game console pdf manual download. Sign In Upload. Download Table of Contents Contents. Add to my manuals. Delete from my manuals. Share. URL of this page: HTML Link:, Well from my experience, i would say staying on both below 65º its a the sweet spot. My new CECH-C04 stays below 60º on both, even during PS3 games, usually hovering 52º CELL and 57º RSX at 33% fan speed, i would never advise leaving a 60Gb at 28% fan speed, as thats mainly stock from the time it powers to the pre-heat, thats the …, Now regarding compatibility, almost 94% of the library works with the CECHE01 Series, might be a bit higher in Europe due to being the only option available as the CECHC03/04 Series,which is the same as the E01,Metal Gear Solid 3 works flawlessly, asside for the low-framerate FMVs in some sequences,and slowdowns during The Fury Fight and the ..., Original 60GB PS3s with a model number that starts with CECH-Axx are completely backward compatible with both PS2 and PS1 games. Original 20GB PS3s with model number CECH-Bxx, 60GB …, This is a list of PlayStation and PlayStation 2 games, for which the PlayStation 3 is backwards compatible. This list is updated as new PS3 firmware editions are released by Sony.The 40GB, 80GB re-release, 160GB, the slim, and the super slim version of the PS3 are not officially backwards compatible with PS2 games because, for undisclosed …, In a nutshell, the biggest advantage of an early model PS3 is the PS2 compatibility which is unrivalled by later models, CFW notwithstanding. Ventilation on those models isn't as effective compared to slim models, which means their longevity is reduced in comparison. However, you can use dynamic fan settings with webMAN MOD, which is more ...,